Curse

Jake_Steel · Jan 11, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountAristotle

I'm not defending our exploitation, but by God.. I see post after post saying that you can do this without ever beating DoA.. all fours areas AND Mallyx.

Please understand, you did have to have completed all four DoA areas and Mallyx all the good ole "hard way" or "super-easy way Ursan". AFTER that and only after all the areas were done could you do the exploit. Thanks.

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the ban however. It doesn't matter how it was exploited and hacked. All that matters is it was.

If you're the corpse in a murder investigation, it doesn't matter how you died, just that your are now dead.

Puritans Aid · Jan 11, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Mass

The quest Mallyx the unyielding says this....

Go to the City of Torc'qua and destroy Lord Jadoth
Go to the Ravenhart Gloom and destroy the Greater Nightmare
Go to the foundry of failed creations and destroy the Fury

etc etc

but wait you havent done any of them?????

and making a build to "solo" a mission is by far different then just skipping 95% of your quest to the last boss (and his 30 groups before you start whining about that)

and yes i am noob at least noob enough NOT to exploit a bug... kthxbai

Your right, Im a noob who didnt realize it was a bug, haxor, whatever. Im a noob, because, I didnt do them? I did actually. i did the quests a few times. Somehow you seem to think I didn't? Maybe if you had a slight clue what you were talking about, that would be nice.

Ok, so theres a quest. it gives u a reward. and a chest. It didnt register with my brain. I didnt even think about it. It still seems the same to me as urgoz/deep towns. Not on map etc. Same.

I guess you didnt do it? I guess you have no idea how it is? I didnt even know you had to do 4 quests eveyr time you did mallyx. I never new that at all. I Am now reading thats apparenly how its set up. I did hte quests, when I did them, for gymstones that they give. the 4 quests. Then I assumed you could do mallyx over and over. I didnt realize it was a repeatable.

Maybe im not explaining this very good, but if it says, do these 4 quests, and youve done them a few times, then it lets you figh tmallyx, I assume its made to be that way.

I didnt assume its been hacked or something. I guess I need to start looking for the bad in everything, and not take things at face value.

Like I said, I am a bit of a noob for not realizing, I guess. But if you were in urgoz in the first month of Factions, or if you did a quest chain, then got the fight say, shiro over and over, it seems normal game play to me.
I guess Im a total noob.

dark moon · Jan 11, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

I really know a lot of people who got banned. I am the only officer in my guild who didn't get banned, because I live in Europe and my friends live in the U.S.A. They did some Mallyx runs late at night. I know of a lot more people who got banned too. let me assure you: None of them ever used third party programs. With A lot, I really mean I think I know about 100 banned people by (in game) name. This makes me think about the amount of banned people. If even I already know so much...

Since they were amongst the first people to find out about the glitch (yes, a glitch. Not an exploit.) I can say with a great deal of certainty NOBODY hacked in there. None of the people I know are hackers, I am sure. In my opinion there was an Anet staff member whole also liked to play the game that zoned the first people there (amongst those people guildies and friends of mine). I don't know whether or not it was by accident (having the outpost stored as default location when u leave the gh, for example). I guess that too is the reason why people kept it secret, but still went on with it. I know Gaile lies in at least 90% of the cases when she said the people hacked. The outpost was already there and people got ferried to it. I don't see why that would be a breach of the EULA.

Next point. The highest amount of armbraces obtained by 1 person I know if is maybe 30 armbraces. With all of the duping and other unfair things going on, that doesn't even seem worth mentioning. Besides, Anet can just take them of the accounts now. I only know of 1 person who still holds about 5 armbraces on a second account, although I only asked this to about 30 people.

Aside from the views guilt/innocent or good/bad or whatever: the reality that I almost lost half of my guild and I lost over half of my friends list. People I've been playing with for a long time. People that got R4 and R5 KoBD. Those people will quit gw for sure, if they can't get there accounts back. That doesn't only affect them, it will affect me too. As a completely innocent person, I get punished by losing most of my best friends. I'm unsure what to do if the people remain banned. Quit people too, I guess? Join them in WoW from now on?

Thank you for reading.

Azarr#1 · Jan 11, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

do you ever think that the people used it simply because they dont like wasting their time looking for a group that would pick up a noob and fail I dont believe he exploited it if he only got 1 armbrace because the meaning expoit is . to utilize, esp. for profit; turn to practical account and he did not use it for profit since he did not do it in the faster than the time it takes a normal group

Puritans Aid · Jan 11, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by artay

Why didnt you get it old fashioned way? Because it was easier to use the exploit? Bingo you just used an exploit for your personal gain, Bingo! You just exploited an exploit!

you dont even make sense. I play gw for fun. I did the 4 quests a few times, on different characters, etc for fun.. I did malyx in what is now being called an exploit for fun.

I didnt even KNOW IT Was an EXPLOIT. I DIDNT make any huge amount of gold on it. Maybe u dont know what an exploit is? Aparently this is a bug? or hack. No one seems to know. SOme are saying, and I believe its true, that someone happened into it in game, un hacked, just a bug. OR someone hacked to get the town. I dont know, and I didnt know.

EITHER WAY, if I had EXPLOITED a BUG for instance, or a HACK,
I would be uber rich, and I would have used the thing a lot.

I didnt. Im not uber rich, any more than I was before. I didnt use it a lot, and The fact I used the bug, not knowing it was a bug, for the essence of 1 armbrace, in 2 months, I dont think at ALL falls under the definitin of EXPLOIT.

Like I said, look it up. This is either a hack or a bug, that has been exploited by many others, apparently knowingly.

My whole point is I didnt know it was a bug/hack whatever, I didnt EXPLOIT IT, and I dont think you have a single clue what your talking about here......

Uber Mass · Jan 11, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

*moar blah*

I've done DoA enough to know you defeat the 4 bosses then talk to snake guy in DoA outpost to gain acces to Ebony Citadel =D

Not joining a group and ending up in strange outpost...

and to give you an indication how much i done DoA...

so yes i have no life and did doa to much =p

anyway go post your QQ to ANET support kthx

Peace out

Onyx Blindbow · Jan 11, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

LOl what makes me laugh about all the "QQ" is that the people that were banned were knowingly using the exploit.

I farm DoA a LOT and for the past 3 weeks certain "guilds" were inviting people to join that were up there farming, after getting into a conversation with a few of these people they were advising that there were 3 people that knew of a way to continually kill mallyx without having to clear the 4 primaries, at one point they were spamming in town, "farm 8 armbraces in 3 hours with us" they even made their guildnames in mockery of what they were doing and the majority of people in DoA for the past 2 weeks could probably have told you who will be banned.

By the looks of things a-net allowed a lot more than most other games in that they gave people the benefit of the doubt for travelling to this outpost a few times.

Apparantly the chances of getting to this outpost by mistake are infinitely small, yet a-net gave a little leeway.

The simple truth is those that have been banned deserve to be banned as they knew full well what they were doing.

GG A-net

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 11, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I see a lot of mis understanding about the mechanics of the exploit here.

I suspect VERY few people knew how to gain access to the outpost in the first place. To be the first EVER person there you needed to hack the client.

Once you had gained access to the fake town you could take anyone who had killed Mallyx once there as part of your team. The People you dragged with you DID NOT need to hack the client.

It was obvious the place should not have been possible to get to and that it was a serious exploit in the game. It was also obvious that to farm the place would be inviting trouble. The responsible thing to do would have been to report the exploit to Anet staff, inform your guild or guild leader there was an exploit and tell people not to use it. Then dont go there ever again.

Therefore I suspect most of the people banned did NOT hack the client, but their actions once there are critical. Did they think OMG this is wrong and map out right away, did they farm it loads of times knowing it was wrong?, Did they think this is cool I must show xyz, did they think this is wrong i'll test a few things out and report it? Anets job is quite hard as they dont want to ban innocents, nor do they want to let people who abused it off the hook.

What I think they did, is similar to what happend in the duping case where they did an initial sweep and then fine tune later.

There are it seems a few catagories of people

1. Who hacked the client and got there
2. Who did NOT hack the client and went there with the intention of farming it to death
3. Who did NOT hack the client with no intention of farming it but did the mission.
4. Who did NOT hack the client and were dragged there accidentally
5. Who did NOT hack the client, went there tested the minimal amount required and then reported it right away with the details of their testing

People in groups 4 or 5 should not be banned IMHO. Group 3 people are harder to prove and chat logs would help in that

Group 4 people are easier to prove. They will have been there very few times, and will have sent in tickets, PM's to Anet staff etc. I expect those people, like Fenix and Enko who found the dupe exploit will be unbanned. (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...it+report ing)

People in groups 1 and 2 I have no sympathy for(esp 1).

I suspect this will run and run tho...

PS this post is a cat free zone..

artay · Jan 11, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

you dont even make sense. I play gw for fun. I did the 4 quests a few times, on different characters, etc for fun.. I did malyx in what is now being called an exploit for fun.

I didnt even KNOW IT Was an EXPLOIT. I DIDNT make any huge amount of gold on it. Maybe u dont know what an exploit is? Aparently this is a bug? or hack. No one seems to know. SOme are saying, and I believe its true, that someone happened into it in game, un hacked, just a bug. OR someone hacked to get the town. I dont know, and I didnt know.

EITHER WAY, if I had EXPLOITED a BUG for instance, or a HACK,
I would be uber rich, and I would have used the thing a lot.

I didnt. Im not uber rich, any more than I was before. I didnt use it a lot, and The fact I used the bug, not knowing it was a bug, for the essence of 1 armbrace, in 2 months, I dont think at ALL falls under the definitin of EXPLOIT.

Like I said, look it up. This is either a hack or a bug, that has been exploited by many others, apparently knowingly.

My whole point is I didnt know it was a bug/hack whatever, I didnt EXPLOIT IT, and I dont think you have a single clue what your talking about here......

It doesn't matter if you play gw for fun, hardcore, anything, if you want to get something, get it the way it was intended.

Ok so I did as you said and looked up exploit;
1. exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage; "He exploit the new taxation system"; "She knows how to work the system"; "he works his parents for sympathy"

So this applies to the exploit, it can be taken advantage of, and it is used for your benefit. But it doesn't matter what it is, because you still benefitted form it unfairly and you presumably got banned appropriately for it.

I dont care if you play for fun, you used this exploit to get something easier, if it didn't give you an advantage, then why use it?

And Yes you did exploit by getting one ambrace faster than usual, you still selfishly gained from it. It doesnt matter if you didn't get uber rich.

You exploited a bug/hack/exploit

Thanks for reading.

Puritans Aid · Jan 11, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Mass

I've done DoA enough to know you defeat the 4 bosses then talk to snake guy in DoA outpost to gain acces to Ebony Citadel =D

Not joining a group and ending up in strange outpost...

and to give you an indication how much i done DoA...

so yes i have no life and did doa to much =p

anyway go post your QQ to ANET support kthx

Peace out

Dude, wheres the endication how much you did doa? I dont get it.

I had never done doa much. just 2 or 3 of the quests before this. I was with GUILDIES who talked like it was same as urgoz type town, and said it was ok. I did the quests several times in the 2 months. I never did talk to the "snake guy" to go to mallyx, I didnt know it was required. I even did mallyx a few times without the quests not know ing anything about it. It never did make sense to me fully, but I never thought it was a glitch/bug either, as I said I guess Im a complete noob.

Anyway, I did send several tickets to A net and they are responding with all the speed of a snail stuck in quick sand. I got the 4 automated requests sure, but a real live person writing back? not so lucky yet.

OH, and I want to point out, EULAs ftl . .I read a big article on them, and it seems tons of ppl get screwed out of 100s of dollars every day by buying games, having htem a week, unknowingly breaking a eula, and getting banned.

I knwo they need rules etc, but some of the stuffs rediculous.

there were ppl in my guild banned up to 3 times for FAST FACTOIN FARMING. as far as I know this isnt even bottable We had hzh with like 90m faction. We had teams of 6+ FFFing round the clock. we got banned for being addicted to a game aimed at making you addicted > Finally a net said they would make a list of known true FFF ers to not ban.

My point is, EULAS are needed, and fair. But sometimes people get caught up in things that they dont know are rong, or simply arent wrong. I am hoping they see this graciously, as they have seen other things graciously in the past.

I woulda had no guild left months ago had the FFF bans stuck. So lets hope I have a guild again soon, after this mess.

Azarr#1 · Jan 11, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Ok everyone this is not an exploit because you can not gain more money doing this so called "exploit" than you can doing the regular quests so you cannot gain anything from it. that you would not of gained from it normally. And they already proved to arenanet that they had the skill "(from what gaile gray is trying to say)" to actually beat the other 4 bosses before them This so called exploit does not let you gain anything more so the Bannes are meaningless other than they all just wanted to do something out of the ordinary to gain profit rather than going with the herd of people that may give them a noob and make them end their regular 4bosses run

Magevdon is the Man · Jan 11, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

It saddens me that AreaNet chose to use such harsh disciplinary action on the individuals in this case.

A great many of them are my friends, many of whom saw it as another temporary glitch - we've all seen them, and experienced them. Whether its the "Edge of the world" or some Necrotic transversal jump - we've all seen things in the game that didn't fit and said nothing. So why now? Why the bans?

Hacking, most certainly can suck the fun out of any game. Many of those who play Guild Wars are familiar with Diablo, and the prescense of Ultimate PK item killing machines: Thier power not earned but rather designed through some crafty program.

However in the case of Guild Wars, the line of acceptable playing behavior is blurry. One could claim the 55 monk build to be a game exploit - some unforseen reversal of values in order to wield immense power. Others call it ingenuity - but like before - the difference between inventiveness and hacking in GW in a hair thin prospect.

AreaNet Is somewhat contradictive in its statments on its attempts to "stabilize" the game's economy. Events like "A Weekend to Dye for" and game updates that Nerf new inventive builds destabalize it. They shifted the market from one favorable to sellers to that of buyers. It was not some pissant dip, it was a crash. Swords Like The elemental blade went from 100k +ectos to 70k and below. Market trade goods like Black Dye went from 11k a peice to 6.5k. Players lose faith in what they work for, and the game - which has many titles centered around high costing goods- has lost its interest. For many of the most hardcore players it is the difficulty in obtaining that perfect rare 100k +item that makes the game worth playing. Don't lower the bar just so you can suck in new players.

And let us not forget people that we are dealing with fake money here. The account those 117 lost were real, tangible, and cost them real (and sometimes substantial amounts of) money. As many of the posts before me have mentioned or at least implied - AreaNet doesn't mind screwing a few hundred people so long as they keep buisness booming. (sounds an awful lot like a game by the name of WoW).

AreaNet should have done this: Sent a PC representative to the Outpost and issued a cease and desist warning to those who entered. Fixed the exploit - and moved the heck on.

For a long time I had nothing but good things to say about Guild Wars. It has changed - and so has the attitude I express when convincing my college buddies to buy or hesitate when it comes down to it.

AreaNet: lift the ban - you made the exploit, you fix it. Don't punish those unaware of the implications of your mistakes.

vaxmor · Jan 11, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azarr#1

Ok everyone this is not an exploit because you can not gain more money doing this so called "exploit" than you can doing the regular quests so you cannot gain anything from it. that you would not of gained from it normally.

isnt the reason that they didnt gain ?much? money from this spl0it is because they failed most of their runs and the few that they did manage to complete were done very, very slowly?

IMHO, just because they were incapable of abusing this spl0it to the maximum potential, doesnt make it less of a spl0it.

imbanned2 · Jan 11, 2008, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Mass

I've done DoA enough to know you defeat the 4 bosses then talk to snake guy in DoA outpost to gain acces to Ebony Citadel =D

Not joining a group and ending up in strange outpost...

and to give you an indication how much i done DoA...

so yes i have no life and did doa to much =p

anyway go post your QQ to ANET support kthx

Peace out

1st of all.. thats all? xD
2nd.. the "QQ" is about shut if u dont know whats going on.. and dude stop saying exploit = banned cuz there were a few exploits before and nobody did nothing.. including gaile said "was a great one I did it too" lol
3rd.. if gaile knows about this why so many contradictions hun?
4th she wasnt there and preffer to say hackers(that is a hard pretty high word and some day will cause a demand) than explain "yeh we left a breach opened and some ppl abused of it but thxs to god we have the EULA for clean everything" ok so now u used the EULA before ffs.. and really most of u yeh if is a bug or an exploit /report and its done.. sureeee u will report something that is against u but this I dont think so.. well except this guy who started all well seems he posted cuz somebody kicked him from the team but gg anyway.. so ppl dont talk cuz u have mouth only plz think

Sanji · Jan 11, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

There is powerful semanticmancery afoot in this thread..

When you take advantage of something in the game it is an exploit no matter how little you profit from it or how ignorant you are of what you are actually doing.

Taking a backdoor directly to a boss is exploiting. There really is no other way around it.

artay · Jan 11, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritans Aid

SO you are TELLING me, I couldnt have gotten an armbrace in 2 months normal way? thats really what your saying? IT took me 2 months man to get one, and your saying I got one faster. SO it takes 3 months normally to get an armbrace? wow dude. .I didnt know anything about doa after all. I had no idea.. Im a total noob. make my ban permanent cause I have no clue wtf goes on in gw. TY GG

By the rate you were apparantly going, it would have taken you longer if you did it normally. so by exploiting you shaved time off of it?

If you could have done it in the same time, then why use the bug to get there?

Riddle me that.

Onyx Blindbow · Jan 11, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

AreaNet: lift the ban - you made the exploit, you fix it. Don't punish those unaware of the implications of your mistakes.

Unaware, please...

They were completely aware of what was going on as it was explained to them as a way to kill mallyx without having to do 4 quests.

a-net already advised it gave some leeway in those that were there a few times (which is more than fair TBH)

The simple truth is the exploit was discovered (call it a glitch or whatever you what to call it but it was an exploit gained originally by modifying the game client and this knowledge was passed onto 2 - 3 other guild leaders) did those people report the exploit to a-net in the hope of a fix? NOPE

They chose to use it to fast farm and flood their accounts with armbraces (as advised before they were spamming "come and farm 8 armbraces in 3 hours" in DoA over xmas) and a number of people signed up with their new guilds.

So please stop with the "it's a-net fault, they are innocent etc..." BS they are guilty plain and simple.

Bugs are bugs and the idea behind the EULA is that if you find one you report it right away, they did'nt they exploited it as far as possible and got banned.

GG A-net

Azarr#1 · Jan 11, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

One its not always a failure and not always do normal groups get through it perfectly fine all the time man ive had groups the just totally wipe on the 30 mobs that you have to beat before getting to mallyx so I seriously doubt that all normal groups never fail so its still equivalant It just makes it so that they dont have to get 2 hours out of their day to do it like the rest of us and I personally understand because, I wish that there was an easier faster way to do it rather then getting together experienced people and having to spend 2 hours out of my day to get the 5 gemsets that I usually get.

zwei2stein · Jan 11, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

[*]There is a massive difference between ferrying someone to a known map and hacking the client to go to an inaccessible map, to take on a hero without having had to fight through four difficult challenges prior to that meeting. For in normal circumstances, by the time a party gets to Mallyx, they've taken damage, acquired DP, and spent a significant amount of time. The DoA mission requires talent, skill, and dedication. What challenge is there in skipping to the end scene? And would anyone honestly think that such a short-cut was allowed or intended?

Why is URSAN still ingame when you follow this logic?

(it was the thing that allowed easy mallyx kill with abuse of this exploit anyway, without it majority of exploiters would just be able to start mission but would fail.)

BUT: Kudos for banning action, it was much needed!

yishin · Jan 11, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

I found this link from the "game bugs" thread:
http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php

Quote:

You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. Bugs should be promptly reported via "Ask a Question" at http://support.guildwars.com.

Updated 27 September 2007

Whether or not you got rich out this is not important IMO, I believe ANet could have banned more people than they did. If they applied the EULA, you could even say they were lenient.